Man oh man! Cosper named Neil T Anderson in one of the episodes! I didn't realize how influential that guy was to the concept of spiritual warfare and "identity in christ" language.
He touches on the therapeutic nature of Andersons teachings and I agree. In my old charismatic church his 7 Steps to Freedom was kind of a substitute for therapy. The way his 7 steps just enables scrupolosity and magical thinking while attempting to improve mental health is just wild.
Cosper also shows a clip of a pastor claiming dissociative identidy disorder as "demon possession "
In addition to all the satanic panic, I think the evangelical church has not known what to do with the really "scary" mental illnesses so it's easier to chalk it up to demon possession. Because why else would their good son or daughter be losing their mind?
I caught up on all the episodes that are currently out while on a road trip this weekend. The whole charismatic demon movement and then Neil Anderson making it more “acceptable” was super interesting. I noticed language like “pray a hedge” that seems so unassuming but when you see where it came from, it’s actually quite disturbing since it’s NOT Biblical. Lots to reject and repent of for sure!
My boys were born in 87, 90, 95. We were SBC. I remember one lady in our church who I really loved but she told me not to let my kids watch the smurfs. I never bought into that. Same thing happened hen Harry Potter came out. My boys were never really interested in it but we had one little boy in our neighborhood that went around casting spells. At the time it bothered me. Our pastor spoke often against it but since my boys were not interested I didn’t pursue banning it. Then we moved to Houston area when my youngest was 13. They had a midnight showing of one the potter movies and he wanted so bad to fit in I took him to the movie. I remember leaving and thinking “ wow. That was actually entertaining “. And all those questions just went away.
We recently took a trip to Europe and they had all the Harry Potter movies on the plane so I watched the first three. My own sister was horrified that there was a Harry Potter book in my house. And. I remember when frank Pereti series came out.
My boys are no longer church goers and I’m realizing that the church itself probably drove them out.
I started listening to the series after you recommended it. It’s so good! Because I grew up in 60s and 70s, all this makes sense to me now!
Oh my goodness. In my life in Canada during the 80s and 90s I don’t remember anything about things being satanic.
There were some weird movies in 60s and 70s but to me all fantasy. Like Rosemary’s Baby and the Exorcist. I don’t remember anything about dolls or toys. Or even books being satanic.
I do remember in 2000 people were upset with Harry Potter. Wish I had read them then. My granddaughter was 6 when she read her first Harry Potter. Now at 22 she still delights in the imagination of the book.
I had joined a type of evangelical church in 2001. And I became very judgmental. Good thing my family didn’t get upset with me.
But I live in Canada. Maybe that’s why. I wonder if any Canadians had these experiences.
I am Canadian, brought up in conservative Evangelical Baptist and Fundamentalist Baptist circles. I would say the majority of pastors in the churches my family attended were either from the U.S. or had been trained by teachers from or trained in the U.S. We definitely heard the rumours. The majority of homeschool curriculum was also derived from the U.S. - it was actually a challenge to find Canadian history and Social Studies material for homeschoolers - ATI never provided any. Given that evangelical denominations still only make up about 2 percent of Canada's population, I don't think the Satanic Panic didn't had as much of an impact on Canadian culture generally, but it impacted my circles.
Yes, we were registered as homeschooled with the local school board and actually had yearly inspections until I was about eleven. After that, I think the school board was cutting budget and so stopped sending inspectors.
My mother had been a public school teacher, and her original motivation in homeschooling us at first was simply to give us a better scholastic foundation than we could get in school. She did do that - our abilities in reading, writing, and arithmetic were better developed than the average student, as the school board inspectors noted in their reports.
It wasn't until my eldest sibling reached high school that my parents were persuaded to join ATI. The last couple of school inspectors were shown the ATI curriculum and didn't see anything wrong with it. I think they were so impressed by a group of intelligent, happy, well behaved children, they failed to look any further - also, they weren't religious and so wouldn't have seen any of the spiritual danger of ATI.
Back in the early 90’s many members of our church were deeply caught up with Bill Gothard’s teaching. It was a non-denominational church but our pastors came from a PCA background. Gothard’s ideas weren’t being taught from the pulpit but neither was there any push-back from the pastors and some of the elders were proponents of IBLP. Eventually, that influence faded out, but I still am grieved that pastors who should have known better failed to confront these false teachings. And I still see that tendency to turn a blind eye to Christian nationalism, Trumpism and a certain segment of
Evangelicals who want to revert back to those ideas.
I’m in Australia, and while we haven’t had quite the same experience as Christians in the US, I fear we’re not far behind.
I see the same triumphalism in some particularly Pentecostal streams, the same linking of politics and church, the same entitlement and the same seeking of power and control by leaders.
I just escaped from a high control church where the ‘apostle’ thought his every idea was God’s. Just after I left he was exposed as a sexual abuser. He’s now pursuing power and money in a secular environment. I pray no church/group of people give him another go at being a pastor!
I’m sad about the same things! And I notice the same things. I wonder about the motivation behind not calling out truth and lies. Are they afraid to lose power?
I think sometimes it is about conflict avoidance. Or not really considering the harm those teachings are doing. Or as in the case of our church at that time, it was just following the trend of conservative evangelical churches without much reflection.
Christy, I'm just a few years younger than you. Same route for my family, but I remember that we got rid of our toys and copies of fairytales, LOTR, and Narnia series before we joined ATI. The influence to do so came from other non-ATI homeschooling families in our rural community, who repeated the lurid rumours to us.
I came to the conclusion years ago that the Satanic Panic was invalid. But I appreciate Cosper's production. I've noticed that many current internet rumours have a marked similarity to rumours during the Satanic Panic, as if nobody had learned their mistake the first time around. Hopefully, the podcast will help people to recognize the truth of the Apostle Paul's warning: "have nothing to do with pointless and silly myths." (I Timothy 4:7, CSB)
It’s wild to me how the same lies circulate with new audiences. I’ve noticed the same thing.
And while we were all worried about possessed toys, fairytales, and the occult, the real evil was right there pretending to be light and goodness. 😢 The apostle Paul also has something to say about that:
“For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” 2 Cor 11:13-14
"It’s wild to me how the same lies circulate with new audiences. I’ve noticed the same thing"
Yes, it's quite pathetic, in my view. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be completely separate from 'mainstream' Christianity (what they call 'Christendom') had/have the possessed dolls myth. They may even still believe it now; their 'theologies' change even more slowly than those in the mainstream.
I remember in the eighties there was a panic about the company Procter and Gamble. Their logo is a strange looking thin with a bearder moon man thing and stars on it. Perfect fodder for the Satanic panic bunch. Indeed, the rumour was actually circulated by a contemporary Christian gossip magazine ('Buzz') and they told their readers to write to P&G to complain. Or something. Anyway, when the rumour was later publicly debunked, only *one* of those who wrote to P&G wrote back to apologise. And, interestingly, the same myth cropped up again about a decade ago. This is simply the mob mentality, being applied to fully, totally ignorant people - those I refer to as 'The Unintelligentsia' lol ;)
I remember hearing that so many innoccous toys and children's shows were evil and even, often, possessed: Care Bears, Smurfs, Pokemon (of course), etc. And of course Dungeons & Dragons, and all those rock bands with their "backward masking" of lyrics (to the "demon beat from Africa").
Man oh man! Cosper named Neil T Anderson in one of the episodes! I didn't realize how influential that guy was to the concept of spiritual warfare and "identity in christ" language.
He touches on the therapeutic nature of Andersons teachings and I agree. In my old charismatic church his 7 Steps to Freedom was kind of a substitute for therapy. The way his 7 steps just enables scrupolosity and magical thinking while attempting to improve mental health is just wild.
Cosper also shows a clip of a pastor claiming dissociative identidy disorder as "demon possession "
In addition to all the satanic panic, I think the evangelical church has not known what to do with the really "scary" mental illnesses so it's easier to chalk it up to demon possession. Because why else would their good son or daughter be losing their mind?
Great post Christy keep writing!
I caught up on all the episodes that are currently out while on a road trip this weekend. The whole charismatic demon movement and then Neil Anderson making it more “acceptable” was super interesting. I noticed language like “pray a hedge” that seems so unassuming but when you see where it came from, it’s actually quite disturbing since it’s NOT Biblical. Lots to reject and repent of for sure!
My boys were born in 87, 90, 95. We were SBC. I remember one lady in our church who I really loved but she told me not to let my kids watch the smurfs. I never bought into that. Same thing happened hen Harry Potter came out. My boys were never really interested in it but we had one little boy in our neighborhood that went around casting spells. At the time it bothered me. Our pastor spoke often against it but since my boys were not interested I didn’t pursue banning it. Then we moved to Houston area when my youngest was 13. They had a midnight showing of one the potter movies and he wanted so bad to fit in I took him to the movie. I remember leaving and thinking “ wow. That was actually entertaining “. And all those questions just went away.
We recently took a trip to Europe and they had all the Harry Potter movies on the plane so I watched the first three. My own sister was horrified that there was a Harry Potter book in my house. And. I remember when frank Pereti series came out.
My boys are no longer church goers and I’m realizing that the church itself probably drove them out.
I started listening to the series after you recommended it. It’s so good! Because I grew up in 60s and 70s, all this makes sense to me now!
It makes so much sense when you recognize what was happening behind it all.
Oh my goodness. In my life in Canada during the 80s and 90s I don’t remember anything about things being satanic.
There were some weird movies in 60s and 70s but to me all fantasy. Like Rosemary’s Baby and the Exorcist. I don’t remember anything about dolls or toys. Or even books being satanic.
I do remember in 2000 people were upset with Harry Potter. Wish I had read them then. My granddaughter was 6 when she read her first Harry Potter. Now at 22 she still delights in the imagination of the book.
I had joined a type of evangelical church in 2001. And I became very judgmental. Good thing my family didn’t get upset with me.
But I live in Canada. Maybe that’s why. I wonder if any Canadians had these experiences.
I am Canadian, brought up in conservative Evangelical Baptist and Fundamentalist Baptist circles. I would say the majority of pastors in the churches my family attended were either from the U.S. or had been trained by teachers from or trained in the U.S. We definitely heard the rumours. The majority of homeschool curriculum was also derived from the U.S. - it was actually a challenge to find Canadian history and Social Studies material for homeschoolers - ATI never provided any. Given that evangelical denominations still only make up about 2 percent of Canada's population, I don't think the Satanic Panic didn't had as much of an impact on Canadian culture generally, but it impacted my circles.
Didn’t the provincial government have input into homeschooling?
Yes, we were registered as homeschooled with the local school board and actually had yearly inspections until I was about eleven. After that, I think the school board was cutting budget and so stopped sending inspectors.
My mother had been a public school teacher, and her original motivation in homeschooling us at first was simply to give us a better scholastic foundation than we could get in school. She did do that - our abilities in reading, writing, and arithmetic were better developed than the average student, as the school board inspectors noted in their reports.
It wasn't until my eldest sibling reached high school that my parents were persuaded to join ATI. The last couple of school inspectors were shown the ATI curriculum and didn't see anything wrong with it. I think they were so impressed by a group of intelligent, happy, well behaved children, they failed to look any further - also, they weren't religious and so wouldn't have seen any of the spiritual danger of ATI.
What is ATI?
I was a public school teacher with the Halton Board.
Bill Gothard’s homeschool “program” called the Advanced Training Institute.
Oh my - So that came up to Christian homeschoolers in Canada?
Amazing!
Oh my. I never really met any evangelical Christians growing up. We did have a Brethren family across the road. No dances.
It is interesting to see a difference between countries, even ones that are so close.
Back in the early 90’s many members of our church were deeply caught up with Bill Gothard’s teaching. It was a non-denominational church but our pastors came from a PCA background. Gothard’s ideas weren’t being taught from the pulpit but neither was there any push-back from the pastors and some of the elders were proponents of IBLP. Eventually, that influence faded out, but I still am grieved that pastors who should have known better failed to confront these false teachings. And I still see that tendency to turn a blind eye to Christian nationalism, Trumpism and a certain segment of
Evangelicals who want to revert back to those ideas.
I’m in Australia, and while we haven’t had quite the same experience as Christians in the US, I fear we’re not far behind.
I see the same triumphalism in some particularly Pentecostal streams, the same linking of politics and church, the same entitlement and the same seeking of power and control by leaders.
I just escaped from a high control church where the ‘apostle’ thought his every idea was God’s. Just after I left he was exposed as a sexual abuser. He’s now pursuing power and money in a secular environment. I pray no church/group of people give him another go at being a pastor!
I think that high control churches with an abusive leader are sadly common worldwide. I’m SO glad you escaped!!
I’m sad about the same things! And I notice the same things. I wonder about the motivation behind not calling out truth and lies. Are they afraid to lose power?
I think sometimes it is about conflict avoidance. Or not really considering the harm those teachings are doing. Or as in the case of our church at that time, it was just following the trend of conservative evangelical churches without much reflection.
We definitely need more reflection!
Christy, I'm just a few years younger than you. Same route for my family, but I remember that we got rid of our toys and copies of fairytales, LOTR, and Narnia series before we joined ATI. The influence to do so came from other non-ATI homeschooling families in our rural community, who repeated the lurid rumours to us.
I came to the conclusion years ago that the Satanic Panic was invalid. But I appreciate Cosper's production. I've noticed that many current internet rumours have a marked similarity to rumours during the Satanic Panic, as if nobody had learned their mistake the first time around. Hopefully, the podcast will help people to recognize the truth of the Apostle Paul's warning: "have nothing to do with pointless and silly myths." (I Timothy 4:7, CSB)
It’s wild to me how the same lies circulate with new audiences. I’ve noticed the same thing.
And while we were all worried about possessed toys, fairytales, and the occult, the real evil was right there pretending to be light and goodness. 😢 The apostle Paul also has something to say about that:
“For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” 2 Cor 11:13-14
"It’s wild to me how the same lies circulate with new audiences. I’ve noticed the same thing"
Yes, it's quite pathetic, in my view. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be completely separate from 'mainstream' Christianity (what they call 'Christendom') had/have the possessed dolls myth. They may even still believe it now; their 'theologies' change even more slowly than those in the mainstream.
I remember in the eighties there was a panic about the company Procter and Gamble. Their logo is a strange looking thin with a bearder moon man thing and stars on it. Perfect fodder for the Satanic panic bunch. Indeed, the rumour was actually circulated by a contemporary Christian gossip magazine ('Buzz') and they told their readers to write to P&G to complain. Or something. Anyway, when the rumour was later publicly debunked, only *one* of those who wrote to P&G wrote back to apologise. And, interestingly, the same myth cropped up again about a decade ago. This is simply the mob mentality, being applied to fully, totally ignorant people - those I refer to as 'The Unintelligentsia' lol ;)
Yeah, it’s wild how the fear and paranoia spreads. Yikes!
Yes, more than one of the homeschooling families we knew, both in and out of ATI, eventually fell apart because of darkness within the family.
😭 Same with people I knew.
I remember hearing that so many innoccous toys and children's shows were evil and even, often, possessed: Care Bears, Smurfs, Pokemon (of course), etc. And of course Dungeons & Dragons, and all those rock bands with their "backward masking" of lyrics (to the "demon beat from Africa").
It's crazy how many things were similar across a variety of fundamentalist groups! But fear always seems to be a strong motivator.