If you haven’t come across it, I heartily recommend Gary Macy’s The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination: Female Clergy in the Medieval West. It gets at this discussion in historic terms with the power of a helpful but succinct argument. Namely- we have the evidence of women’s ordination into various church roles in Christian history but this is obscured in large part because the nature or ordination itself underwent a major revision in the 1100s.
The practical upshot? The maximalist capital G capital T Great Tradition of unbroken male only ordination is historically untenable.
So glad you have stepped out of the old religious ideas and found the truth. We are all equally part of the Kingdom of God. You certainly have a voice worth listening to, and glad you are using it for the glory of God.
Thanks for another helpful post, Christy, and for how you’ve modeled responding to a current book that you’ve not read personally. Well and thoughtfully sourced :)
I also couldn’t help but notice in R’s tweets that he deems empathy a woman’s strength . . . while labeling it a sin with his book title. Bit of a Freudian slip there, revealing a perhaps-unacknowledged basic belief in women as basically sinful, a necessary evil, so to speak. It’s hard to shake a belief you don’t even fully realize you have. But those beliefs will insist on cropping up!
Thanks for the encouragement! I had more tabs open while I wrote this article than I’ve had maybe ever as I bounced from article to essay to article.
R’s feelings for women do slip out don’t they? Another commenter noted that the woman he was responding to is actually single as well and often talks about how it feels to be single in the church. And then he basically told her that her only value is in raising children. 😬 Yikes!
This is not the kind of man/person that should be platformed. But again, that’s why Doug Wilson is the one who published the book. So much yikes!
I wonder if Rigney realized when arguing with Danielle Treweek that she is single and often writes about how important it is to include single people in the life of the church? How condescending to tell her that a woman's value in the church is to be a wife and mother. I have 10 children and woke up about 10 years ago to the ridiculousness of this ideology.
Thank you for such a thoughtful piece, Christy. I’m frustrated with how women are treated the Church. The omnipresent condescension and stereotyping, longing for an image of a “better time” that never existed.
My wife is strong willed: a force of nature. If I’m called to love her “as Christ loved the Church,” then I’m to sacrifice all I have, make less of myself, and die to my own desires.
I see no valid interpretation of scripture where suppressing her vitality and spirit is Christ-like. We’re a unified team the serves one another, not a master and servant. Egalitarian or complementation—loving sacrifice is required; it’s the point of marriage.
I am a man who appreciates your well-organized thoughts. I am trying to understand what kind of person would have a problem with empathy, and this helps put the pieces together. Thank you!
Thanks for your affirmation of KSP and her excellent book. I can't get her words regarding "empires of dirt" out of my mind, or, for that matter, Johnny Cash's version of Hurt.
Again. A very good article. Read parts to my hubby. 54 years in May. He agrees.
If you haven’t come across it, I heartily recommend Gary Macy’s The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination: Female Clergy in the Medieval West. It gets at this discussion in historic terms with the power of a helpful but succinct argument. Namely- we have the evidence of women’s ordination into various church roles in Christian history but this is obscured in large part because the nature or ordination itself underwent a major revision in the 1100s.
The practical upshot? The maximalist capital G capital T Great Tradition of unbroken male only ordination is historically untenable.
God bless!
I haven’t read it yet but it sounds very similar to Beth Allison Baar’s books. She is also a medieval historian. Thanks for the recommendation.
So glad you have stepped out of the old religious ideas and found the truth. We are all equally part of the Kingdom of God. You certainly have a voice worth listening to, and glad you are using it for the glory of God.
Thanks for another helpful post, Christy, and for how you’ve modeled responding to a current book that you’ve not read personally. Well and thoughtfully sourced :)
I also couldn’t help but notice in R’s tweets that he deems empathy a woman’s strength . . . while labeling it a sin with his book title. Bit of a Freudian slip there, revealing a perhaps-unacknowledged basic belief in women as basically sinful, a necessary evil, so to speak. It’s hard to shake a belief you don’t even fully realize you have. But those beliefs will insist on cropping up!
Thanks for the encouragement! I had more tabs open while I wrote this article than I’ve had maybe ever as I bounced from article to essay to article.
R’s feelings for women do slip out don’t they? Another commenter noted that the woman he was responding to is actually single as well and often talks about how it feels to be single in the church. And then he basically told her that her only value is in raising children. 😬 Yikes!
This is not the kind of man/person that should be platformed. But again, that’s why Doug Wilson is the one who published the book. So much yikes!
I wonder if Rigney realized when arguing with Danielle Treweek that she is single and often writes about how important it is to include single people in the life of the church? How condescending to tell her that a woman's value in the church is to be a wife and mother. I have 10 children and woke up about 10 years ago to the ridiculousness of this ideology.
That’s a good question! I’m gonna guess not. Does he care enough to do research on her? Does he see her as a person?
Thank you for such a thoughtful piece, Christy. I’m frustrated with how women are treated the Church. The omnipresent condescension and stereotyping, longing for an image of a “better time” that never existed.
My wife is strong willed: a force of nature. If I’m called to love her “as Christ loved the Church,” then I’m to sacrifice all I have, make less of myself, and die to my own desires.
I see no valid interpretation of scripture where suppressing her vitality and spirit is Christ-like. We’re a unified team the serves one another, not a master and servant. Egalitarian or complementation—loving sacrifice is required; it’s the point of marriage.
I love this! Absolutely!
I am a man who appreciates your well-organized thoughts. I am trying to understand what kind of person would have a problem with empathy, and this helps put the pieces together. Thank you!
Yeah, it’s less about actual empathy and more about a mindset. 😬
Thanks for your affirmation of KSP and her excellent book. I can't get her words regarding "empires of dirt" out of my mind, or, for that matter, Johnny Cash's version of Hurt.
It was SUCH a great book. On my list to read again this summer.
That’s a great idea. I just ordered Beth’s new book. But rereading her first one is a must. And never lending as I might not get it back.