After making some claim about Jesus, I've become a big fan of saying, "But don't take my word for it, ask Him yourself!"
I said this to a Biblical fundamentalist a few weeks ago, and he started pressing me on how we recognize the voice of God among our own self-centered thoughts, so I told him it was the voice of Love and I pointed to 1 Corinthians 13 for how to recognize that voice.
I was very surprised that the discussion concluding with him saying we should also listen to the "fiery voice" that judges and condemns us because that voice was also portrayed as God in the Bible. It broke my brain a little, especially since this guy was pretty explicit in his belief in "the Enemy" as well as God.
I think the Bible is fallible but carries great truth, largely because the loving voice from within says so. But I guess if people are going to admit they're listening to the "fiery voice" because some passage in the Bible tells them to, all you can really do is say nah I'll stick with just the loving one, and I guess one day we'll find out if either of us were right.
As someone who grew up in fundamentalist circles and is not out of them, it always a fascinates me how they want to focus in on narrow views of the Old Testament and ignore the loving God Jesus reveals. And they are often skittish around the Holy Spirit. I want to know why. Like, what does that reveal about their beliefs? It gives me big red flags!
Thank you for this clarification, Christy. You provide theological depth and pastoral care. I really enjoy how you write. This is an important contribution that moves us from fear-based mistrust of our hearts toward leaning to the Spirit's leading. I'm asking myself a few questions post reading: If God has given me a new heart through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, how should that shape the way I read Jeremiah 17:9 today?
When I feel a strong conviction, discomfort, or red flag, am I dismissing it out of fear that my heart is “deceitful,” or am I slowing down to discern whether the Spirit might be speaking?
Am I surrounding myself with wise, Spirit-led counsel who can help me discern when my thoughts are rooted in fear, trauma, or truth?
Could an overemphasis on Jeremiah 17:9 be a way some leaders or systems have justified controlling others, rather than helping them grow in spiritual maturity and discernment?
How do I differentiate between emotions that are rooted in trauma and those that are Spirit-prompted? Do I allow myself the space to listen, reflect, and ask God for clarity?
If Jesus speaks to my heart and the Spirit dwells within me (John 14:26), then how do I learn to tune into that voice while still being mindful of my human limitations?
What’s the difference between self-reliant wisdom and Spirit-led discernment? How do I tell when I’m leaning on one more than the other?
I love your pondering and questions! So good. 😊 They remind me that this real life of ours is complex and we need to approach it with grace and nuance. There isn’t a formula. Thank you!
This verse is one of the most harmful overall that I see in my practice because it removes any mindfulness of our emotions and body and places all agency and trust in the hands of an authority figure. Like you said, I believe it’s a both/and of listening to ourselves and seeking wise counsel outside ourselves too.
Thanks for this input from your professional perspective. As someone who works at teaching kids to listen to their bodies, notice and express their emotions, and advocate for their needs, I’m horrified by the way this verse has been used to produce unthinking “robots.” 😬
She’s my hero! And yes, I mention her a lot because of how transformative those five words were after a year of being told I was the one who was wrong.
I suspect that for most of us we can list harm caused by following those in authority when our heart (and probably the Holy Spirit) told us it was wrong much more than harm caused by following our deceitful hearts.
Thank you for opening the Scripture and sharing this word. It helps me as I continue to untangle the deceitful heart/worm theology in my own heart. I particularly appreciate your word about the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers. Recently someone meeting with my teen at church was asking some question about the time together, I replied “I trust the Holy Spirit in you will guide you”—I think we can powerfully redirect each other back to Him and His work!
You are so welcome! I try to live in the nuance of actual life. Do our hearts deceive us at times? Absolutely! Does that mean we should never trust our gut? Nope! And yes, the wonderful and real Holy Spirit will guide as we seek him. 💕
A "range of nuance and complexity to be considered" - that's what you've brought here! This is a needed corrective, because of all the harm that has been heaped upon people through the "don't trust your gut/heart/emotions" teaching.
I appreciate it. I had some push back when I introduced the idea on Threads last week, but my question is, “who benefits from us not trusting our guts/hearts/emotions?” It’s not us! That’s for sure.
You’ve hit the nail on the head again Christy. Thank you.
You are welcome! Thanks for reading and letting me know it resonated.
After making some claim about Jesus, I've become a big fan of saying, "But don't take my word for it, ask Him yourself!"
I said this to a Biblical fundamentalist a few weeks ago, and he started pressing me on how we recognize the voice of God among our own self-centered thoughts, so I told him it was the voice of Love and I pointed to 1 Corinthians 13 for how to recognize that voice.
I was very surprised that the discussion concluding with him saying we should also listen to the "fiery voice" that judges and condemns us because that voice was also portrayed as God in the Bible. It broke my brain a little, especially since this guy was pretty explicit in his belief in "the Enemy" as well as God.
I think the Bible is fallible but carries great truth, largely because the loving voice from within says so. But I guess if people are going to admit they're listening to the "fiery voice" because some passage in the Bible tells them to, all you can really do is say nah I'll stick with just the loving one, and I guess one day we'll find out if either of us were right.
As someone who grew up in fundamentalist circles and is not out of them, it always a fascinates me how they want to focus in on narrow views of the Old Testament and ignore the loving God Jesus reveals. And they are often skittish around the Holy Spirit. I want to know why. Like, what does that reveal about their beliefs? It gives me big red flags!
I love that you used John 14:26 as a healing antidote to these lies. John was written for an oppressed and spiritually traumatized community. It’s cool to see you connecting the ministry of the Spirit with intuition and empowerment to discern false teachers, as I just wrote a series on those issues: https://open.substack.com/pub/onceaweek/p/clericalism-and-women-in-ephesus-3f0?r=16589c&utm_medium=ios
Let’s just say I’m writing from experience and passion for truth. Thanks for your comment and the link to your article!
Thank you for this clarification, Christy. You provide theological depth and pastoral care. I really enjoy how you write. This is an important contribution that moves us from fear-based mistrust of our hearts toward leaning to the Spirit's leading. I'm asking myself a few questions post reading: If God has given me a new heart through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, how should that shape the way I read Jeremiah 17:9 today?
When I feel a strong conviction, discomfort, or red flag, am I dismissing it out of fear that my heart is “deceitful,” or am I slowing down to discern whether the Spirit might be speaking?
Am I surrounding myself with wise, Spirit-led counsel who can help me discern when my thoughts are rooted in fear, trauma, or truth?
Could an overemphasis on Jeremiah 17:9 be a way some leaders or systems have justified controlling others, rather than helping them grow in spiritual maturity and discernment?
How do I differentiate between emotions that are rooted in trauma and those that are Spirit-prompted? Do I allow myself the space to listen, reflect, and ask God for clarity?
If Jesus speaks to my heart and the Spirit dwells within me (John 14:26), then how do I learn to tune into that voice while still being mindful of my human limitations?
What’s the difference between self-reliant wisdom and Spirit-led discernment? How do I tell when I’m leaning on one more than the other?
I love your pondering and questions! So good. 😊 They remind me that this real life of ours is complex and we need to approach it with grace and nuance. There isn’t a formula. Thank you!
This verse is one of the most harmful overall that I see in my practice because it removes any mindfulness of our emotions and body and places all agency and trust in the hands of an authority figure. Like you said, I believe it’s a both/and of listening to ourselves and seeking wise counsel outside ourselves too.
Thanks for this input from your professional perspective. As someone who works at teaching kids to listen to their bodies, notice and express their emotions, and advocate for their needs, I’m horrified by the way this verse has been used to produce unthinking “robots.” 😬
You've mentioned Miriam before. Thank God for Miriam; she sounds like a proper legend :D
She’s my hero! And yes, I mention her a lot because of how transformative those five words were after a year of being told I was the one who was wrong.
I suspect that for most of us we can list harm caused by following those in authority when our heart (and probably the Holy Spirit) told us it was wrong much more than harm caused by following our deceitful hearts.
An interesting thought! I suspect you are right. 😢
Thank you for opening the Scripture and sharing this word. It helps me as I continue to untangle the deceitful heart/worm theology in my own heart. I particularly appreciate your word about the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers. Recently someone meeting with my teen at church was asking some question about the time together, I replied “I trust the Holy Spirit in you will guide you”—I think we can powerfully redirect each other back to Him and His work!
You are so welcome! I try to live in the nuance of actual life. Do our hearts deceive us at times? Absolutely! Does that mean we should never trust our gut? Nope! And yes, the wonderful and real Holy Spirit will guide as we seek him. 💕
A "range of nuance and complexity to be considered" - that's what you've brought here! This is a needed corrective, because of all the harm that has been heaped upon people through the "don't trust your gut/heart/emotions" teaching.
I appreciate it. I had some push back when I introduced the idea on Threads last week, but my question is, “who benefits from us not trusting our guts/hearts/emotions?” It’s not us! That’s for sure.